EP #156

Alcohol & Emotional Resilience with Alice Kearney

alcoholic minimalist podcast

listen to



In this episode of the Alcohol Minimalist podcast with guest Alice Kearney, Molly openly shares her journey of overcoming family alcohol abuse, advocating for a harmonious relationship with alcohol and urging listeners to reflect on their drinking habits with mindfulness during the festive season. Alice navigates professional stressors intertwined with alcohol dependency, finding inspiration in Watts’ resources to reshape her language around alcohol and benefit from coaching sessions, striving for self-compassion amid setbacks. Emotional resilience takes the spotlight as Watts advocates for Sunny Side, a mindful drink tracking app, and stresses the need for proactive mental health care, resonating with Alice’s creation of a “bounce box” kit fostering resilience in children. Parenting discussions tackle the detrimental “mommy wine culture,” stressing self-care and addressing underlying issues in alcohol dependency journeys, echoing Alice’s transformative experience with Watts’ guidance, heralding a new narrative intertwining alcohol and emotional fortitude.

Welcome to the alcohol minimalist podcast. I’m your host Molly watts. If you want to change your drinking habits and create a peaceful relationship with alcohol, you’re in the right place. This podcast explores the strategies I use to overcome a lifetime of family alcohol abuse, more than 30 years of anxiety and worry about my own drinking, and what felt like an unbreakable daily drinking habits. Becoming an alcohol minimalist means removing excess alcohol from your life. So it doesn’t remove you from life. It means being able to take alcohol or leave it without feeling deprived. It means to live peacefully, being able to enjoy a glass of wine without feeling guilty and without needing to finish the bottle. With Science on our side will shatter your past patterns and eliminate your excuses. Changing your relationship with alcohol is possible. I’m here to help you do it. Let’s start now. Well, hello, and welcome or welcome back to the alcohol minimalist podcast with me your host Molly Watts coming to you from a damp Oregon today. That’s what it looks like out there. Yesterday was cold and dry. A little bit windy today. Lots of raindrops. Sort of the pattern we’re in right now. Very typical of December. And I’m just hopeful that you’re gonna be listening to this in between Christmas and New Year’s, but I’m recording it ahead of time. And I’m just hopeful that it’s going to be a bright, sunny, clear, cold day on Christmas. That’s what I like if it’s not going to snow. Let’s face it, I would love it if it would snow. But that just doesn’t happen very often here in Oregon, at least not at my elevation. How are you doing? How is your December going? I think I said it. I don’t know where or maybe in in my newsletter. But December affords us lots of opportunities to practice our alcohol minimalist lifestyle, right. It allows us lots of opportunities to set a doable drink plan to be mindful to think ahead of time how we’re going to include alcohol in our lives. And then also, if you have had an over drinking experience, it gives us an opportunity to reflect on that and not be and be compassionate and curious with ourselves just because there’s a lot of extracurricular events in December that may not be there during the rest of the year. That’s why it’s such a golden opportunity to really look at your alcohol habits and decide to make plans ahead of time and really dig into creating an alcohol minimalist lifestyle if you want to. I have a couple of before we get to this week’s episode I have a couple of prize winners and as a reminder, if you would like to be entered into the drawing for some alcohol, minimalist swag, all you got to do is leave a review of the podcast or my book breaking the bottle legacy wherever you listen to podcasts wherever you picked up the book, and I will find you and add you in. You can even leave comments on YouTube or on Spotify and you will be entered into the prize drawing as well. There is a random prize drawing that means that I just grabbed a name out of the group and that person this week is Barbie ah Barbie Ah You are my random prize winner that means that you left a review somewhere and you are now a prize winner. So if you would like to email me Molly at Molly watts.com I will send you out your alcohol minimalist swag Barbie H and the other person is for the chosen review and that means that I pick one person that left a review that I want to share with you and that this week is LP Bailey LP Bailey if you are listening please email me Molly at Molly watts.com and let me know that you are a prize winner and LP Bailey’s review of the podcast simply says great support. Appreciate all the positive info and support towards minimizing alcohol. You are very welcome LP Bailey. I agree it is that exactly what I’m hoping to do help you support people to change their drinking habits. This time of year we are ending ending up the year and getting ready for dry weary I at least hope many of you will consider joining me at in dry you weary I do a full 31 days alcohol free but you don’t have to do that completely if that’s not where you are in terms of changing your own drinking habits. I work with moderation management. As a volunteer during dry you airy and I helped create a lot of the content I do group coaching inside of dry you airy and so I would love for you to actually sign up to do a dry erase a program with moderation management. And there’s a free version of it, which is just at dry weary.org. And then if you want that group coaching, you want the extra support, you want the Facebook group, that is called our extra dry version, it’s $35. That $35 goes to support moderation management and the great nonprofit work that they do all year long. So it’s really a win win. And I hope that I will see you all there, I will put a link in the show notes. So www dot dry you weary.org That’s where you can find it. This week on the podcast, I am delighted to share with you a conversation that I had with Alice Kearney. Alice is not only a student of mine, but she is a mental health counselor and a an art therapist. And she has been working in the mental health field for 30 years. She is, as I said, also an alcohol minimalist. And she wanted to become an alcohol minimalist parent so that she could model what a real healthy relationship with alcohol looked like. And so I really wanted to talk with Alice more not only about the work that she’s doing with kids and with families in terms of creating emotional resilience, because that is so much a part of what I teach. And very interesting that she she found you know that she was able to find education and information in everything that I provided that she uses, not only in her life, but helped, you know, reiterate all the work that she does with kids. She says in her bio, recognizing today’s parents want to teach children healthy thinking and mental health skills from a young age, she created the bounce box to help raise resiliency in children. The kit is meant for parents or caregivers to do together with a child. And she says her one of her favorite sayings, which she says in the podcast as well is we all fall down. And it’s how we bounce that counts. And I love the work that Alice is doing. And I think it’s so important to raise awareness for emotional resiliency. I say it all the time. This is a skill set. This is about creating becoming better thinker, learning how to allow emotions to be there. It’s not just about counting drinks, making plans. That’s a tactic that’s a tool, it’s a part of it. But if you do not address the underlying emotions, and why you are drinking in the first place, what you believe you are getting out of the glass, if you don’t challenge some of that. And if you don’t change that thinking, it’s really hard to have a sustainable relationship with alcohol to create sustainable change. And really, that’s what I want. For all of you, I want you to have a peaceful relationship with alcohol for the rest of your life. I want you to have a peaceful relationship with yourself for the rest of your life. I really enjoyed talking with Alice, I’m happy to share her work with all of you. And if you have kids at home and you are wanting to teach them more about becoming emotionally resilient, so that they don’t create a coping strategy with alcohol down the road. Then check out the bounce box. The link is in the show notes. And without further ado, here is my conversation with Alice Kearney. Good morning, Alice, thank you so much for joining me on the alcohol minimalist podcast, this is an important conversation we’re going to have because it’s something that I hear pretty consistently with the people that I work with a desire to be an example, at least for the people around them for their families, especially for their children in raining and kind of like I said, being an example of what a peaceful relationship with alcohol can look like. And I think that was one of the motivating things that you had coming into the work that we did together. And then we’re gonna dive into that narrative a little bit more about children and alcohol and parenting because part of your work has has kind of influenced how you look at this. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you, Molly. I’m so happy to be here. I love your podcasts and so much. I’ve you know, of course, I’ve benefited from so many of your offerings. So I’m thrilled to be here. Let’s dig in a little bit. Let’s talk first about what you do kind of who you are. Just because a lot of times again, people I want to share some of these stories with people because there’s an idea around alcohol that you have to have a really big problem to actually take action and and work with someone and change what you’re doing. And that’s really not what it’s about, right? It’s not that way. And so I want to talk with you a little bit more about Just tell me where you were and why you decided to take action in terms of changing your relationship with alcohol, and what it’s meant for you in terms of your just how it’s impacted, or even how it looks in terms of your, your professional career too, because that’s important, where you who you are and what you do, because I know that’s, that’s kind of part of what our compensation is. Yes, well, so I’ll start with my professional, and then I’ll get into my personal perfect, so I actually have a master’s degree in art therapy. And I got that in Massachusetts, I’m there now. And in Massachusetts, it makes you eligible to take an exam and become a licensed mental health counselor, which is a bit more generic and marketable, and allows me to take insurances, so I’ve worked in hospitals and day programs and early interventions in schools and stuff, but for the last 15 years, I’ve had a private practice. And as a mental health counselor, specifically you work with who I work with families, I work with adults and children. But I’d say most of my practice is probably more children than adults. But yeah, awesome. I’m really excited that you are that you wanted to do this and, and talk with me, because so many people that it’s a lot of a lot of people that I work with are actually just like you they are actually therapists, or people that help other people. And part of the story is, in their own minds is I really should know how to do this myself. Yeah, yeah, right. Definitely. I never worked in the substance abuse, sort of what they call that end of things. But um, yeah, and I come. So I come from a long line of drinkers. So my dad was an alcoholic, Unfortunately, he passed away at 55. And he had an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. And it’s heartbreaking because I think if he had access to some of the skills and offerings that you offer, and that are available today, he could still be with us. So it’s just really heartbreaking. And I really do want the, that kind of legacy to end with me. So I came from a big drinking family, then my husband comes from a big Irish family, not to stereotype, but they are big drinkers as well. So in a way, I felt like I grew up in a cult, like I really needed to reprogram myself, because I had a lot of messages around drinking, that were unhealthy and not serving me. And I wouldn’t say I had like some sort of moment where I was like, This needs to stop. It was more similar to your story where I just felt ill at ease around drinking, and I wasn’t sure I just needed to educate myself more. And as I actually got older, I think I didn’t metabolize that as well. So I think when I was younger, I could have a couple drinks and like wake up in the morning and take a run and be fine. And as I aged, I was like, Oh, I call it foggy remorse, because I was like, I like that foggy more. So I like that. Yeah, I would wake up and be like parts of the night. And like, I don’t really remember that like, and I don’t feel good. I just felt remorseful and foggy headed and yucky. So you do have children, your own children who you were I that that, you know, right. And that was kind of, like I said, I hear that a lot from parents. Like, I just not happy with what it looks like to my kids in terms of how I’m including alcohol in my life. Absolutely. And in so many parts of my life. I mean, my whole life, I feel really intentional. And I work really hard to be present and be thoughtful and be healthy. And then I have this one habit that wasn’t, I was just very inconsistent with so. So I found your podcast, and I absolutely loved it. And so an educated me, it’s sort of the equivalent of growing up in a family of overeaters. And then someone tells you, the serving size is the palm of your hand and you’re like, Oh, I’ve been eating a brick of chicken every night. And you’re telling me it was supposed to be, you know, the palm of my hand. That’s how I found you know, I just, I loved all the science and education. And then I got your book. And so all that really started to change the language in my mind around alcohol. Yeah. And then I hear I mean, it’s fun to hear you say like a habit that doesn’t serve me right, because I think that’s probably vernacular that you’ve picked up along the way. You know, either in the podcast, the book and then in Step one, so yeah, yeah, yeah. And there’s so many phrases and things like that, that I picked up from you in the book and along my journey, so and then I did step one. So I filled out the questionnaires and I got to meet with you individually, which felt like I was able to dig in on a little bit more of a granular level and like really break down some My obstacles. So that felt super helpful. And then what came with that was monthly than most monthly coaching sessions. And that was so amazing to me because I got to feel not so alone connected to other people, I was inspired by them. And it just gives you a nice sense of community. So that has been so helpful to so I, I felt like I got to come at it in all different directions, and each one had a benefit. So it’s just been, it’s just been an eye. And now I’ve, I feel like I’m a much more mindful drinker, I feel okay, I feel much more at peace, I still have work to do. And there are times that it’s still hard, but I feel like I have the resources to help me, you know, get back on track, and I feel much more compassionate with myself, again, this language that you use, but, you know, trying not to be shame based, but to be curious and compassionate towards myself when I do have like, maybe the extra Drake or whatever. So, I mean, that’s all great. I don’t think that I mean, when you say I still have work to do, I mean, I still have work to do, right? I think we all have work to do, I hope we I always have work to do, yes, thinking about that the other day, just in terms of in my my corporate world, I work with seniors. And so it’s, I see people as they’re, they’re aging at a further point than myself. And I just always think to myself, Oh, I just hope, I really hope that I’m still wanting to do and I see examples of that I saw examples with my own father, and I see examples of it. So I know it’s possible, just kind of like this work, you know, it is possible. And that’s always what I want people to hear, especially in the conversations that I have with with students is these habits that we get this this automatic thinking that we have this default that we live in, it really is possible to, to put drinking into that category. And it’s just something that you’re you’re not thinking about, you’re not paying attention to, you’re not educated on. Because there’s a whole lot of narratives, there’s a whole lot of other resources coming at you that want to tell you a different story, right? So whether it’s your your family history that you grew up in, whether it’s the advertising community, because there’s a lot of messages that fit whether it’s social media, all have it kind of creates a story in a narrative in our minds, and it’s our job to challenge that story with. And I love what you said about digging deeper and going into some of your own obstacles. I think that’s really what getting into coaching and group coaching and one on one does, it allows us to really dig in and be willing to challenge some of our long held beliefs, because beliefs are just thoughts that we’ve practiced over and over and over again. And they are actually changeable. Yes. Which is, you know, I think AAA says, stinking thinking, and I definitely had some stinking Yeah, right. Drinking. Yeah, right. Right. Well, it’ll change but you can Yeah, yes. Anything worth doing is not I mean, I, you know, first to say, this is not a magic bullet. I am not here telling people like, oh, you know, come on in and, and will it be a fixed, intimate, you know, it’s not like that. But what I also think is important for people to hear is the work that we do is work that is doable, and actually benefits you in other areas of your life. And it’s work that you want to keep doing for the rest of your life. At least I do. That’s the thing that I think is different. It doesn’t feel like I’m punishing myself, like I’m restricting myself like I’m, you know, just super shame based, right? It’s about it’s just doing something that I know is what I want to be who I want to be and creating a life that I feel very confident that I can keep doing for the rest of my life. Absolutely. Yeah, just evolving and just continuing to be like the healthiest, most mindful person you can be. Yeah. Hey, everyone, just a quick break to talk with you about sunny side. Now you’ve heard me mentioned Sunny Side many times before, you’ve heard me talk with Nick and E and the founders of sunny side. And I just want to share with you why I am so passionate about this company. They are way more than just a drink tracking app. They are really about helping people create a mindful relationship with alcohol and they stand for a life that is about having more, not less, right. There are more rested mornings more days when you’re feeling your absolute best when you have more energy and positivity. Sunnyside is not the They’re to tell you to never go out to never drink, but they are there to help you enjoy your life and to wake up and be ready to be your shining best. It is not an all or nothing approach. It is friendly, it is approachable, and it is absolutely judgment free. They want to be a solution that fits into your unique lifestyle. And I think that’s exactly what they’ve created. You can register for a free 15 day trial, go to www.sunnyside.co/minimalist to get started. That’s www.sunnyside.co/minimalist to try Sunnyside today. So let’s talk a little bit about how this has impacted your work or what you’ve seen in your own practice with regards to height of this idea of emotional resilience and the you know this because I always say that we we aren’t going to we drink, right? For reasons that are that that that aren’t about the alcohol, they are just like, Oh, I love the taste of wine. Oh, I really you know, that’s what people think. And they’re at the top of their head. They’re like, Oh, I just, I just really liked beer, I just really like my cocktails, or I just really want to have fun. But there’s always something there that is there. Typically people are trying to solve through alcohol. And it’s learning how to be more emotionally resilient, is something that’s really a part of what I talk about all the time, and certainly something that you see a lot of I would assume in your own work as with as a therapist, absolutely. One of the things that’s really hard about the mental health care system is I don’t get reimbursed for insurance, unless I say something’s medically necessary, medically necessary. It’s like your hair needs to be on fire, it has to be pretty significant mental anguish for insurance companies to pay for it. And to me, that’s such a sad system. And if and I just realized I want to be in the business of prevention, I don’t want to like be in the business of putting out fires, I’d much rather be in the business of fire prevention. So it got me thinking, and I had been thinking about this before the pandemic, but because the kids I see the anxiety and depression was out of control, it was already really, incredibly heightened. And then when the pandemic had, I thought, Oh, my goodness, this is going to be terrible. I don’t even know how, how the mental health and I knew the system couldn’t support it. And anyway, so I had a lot of simple interventions that I did with families. That was sort of easy, creative, playful, fun. And I thought if I can put this in a box, and allow people to learn about emotional resiliency at home. It would be amazing. So I ended up creating a system basically, it’s like a simple little activity kit, let’s say for caregivers or parents to do with a child. And it’s trying, it’s everything you talk about. It’s basically like alcohol, minimalist parenting. But it’s everything you talk about in sort of in a box. So it’s being aware of your thoughts. Learning to be compassionate with yourself and curious instead of shameful. It’s about knowing sort of your support system and who can help you it’s about healthy ways to calm down. When I think about it right now, my experience with you sort of mirrors what this is because there’s a there’s a book, I’ll tell you what’s in the box, there’s a book that outlines the basic concepts of being resilient of emotional resiliency. Then there’s an activity book where you get much more granular and there’s markers in the box, and you can color and you do all these activities. And it says, and then it introduces the idea of metacognition. Of course, they don’t say that, but it’s called, I called it a bounce box because I use the word bounce so people can understand the idea of resiliency in a fun, playful way. One of my favorite sayings is we all fall down. It’s how we bounce the counts. And so that’s sort of what the what the idea is, but so there’s a little activity book where you get much more granular think about what your specific obstacles are, how you think, and maybe how you could tweak that to be a little healthier. I make homemade like lavender scented bubbles. So I’m teaching people healthy ways to calm down. You take a deep breath in you smell the lavender, you blow it out, you sort of let it go. Is the idea there? And then the final thing is a reward system is that’s almost like a I mean, I’m really stretching my analogy here. But it’s almost like coaching, where it’s just being accountable and continuing to reinforce the positive behaviors and thoughts that you’ve created. So what it is, is in the kit, you get a ball that doesn’t bounce. So if I were to take this ball and drop it on the floor, it would just sit there, the idea being like, you fall down, but you’re not getting backed up. And then when you have, as you would say, neuroplasticity, and stretchy, I call them stretchy, flexible thoughts. You are in a band, the caregiver, or the parent can give the child a band, and you put it around the ball. And you’re earning these bands for your flexible brain and your ball as you get bouncy, or your ball gets bounced here. So and it’s the kids love the ball. And it, it’s sort of fun, because again, I think it mirrors life, because the ball is sort of wonky, it doesn’t even bounce in a predictable way. Because it’s not like a smooth surface. It’s covered in rubber bands, right. And the idea is to all the constant, I mean, I sort of needed to be reprogrammed. So I’d much prefer to have kids learn at a really young age and have parents and family and say like, let’s maybe we don’t even need to do this drinking thing. Let’s learn some mental health skills and some healthy ways to think and be and act at a very young age. So Well, I think that’s, I mean, absolutely, I think this is part of the reason that I have things to teach people is because we aren’t really taught all of this when we are in school. We are you know, and I had when my own children went through school, of course, they teach kids conflict resolution, right? They teach them the little like a little wheel and what’s going to happen if you’re you know, but this is not the same thing, because conflict resolution basically still says that that person did something to you. And it’s them. That’s the problem, right? That’s like it’s not, and what, as an adult, and as we become more emotionally resilient, and we can learn to be more in have agency over our own emotions, we realize, wait a second, nothing outside of me gets to determine how I feel about it, I get to, and I do that by how I think about it. I’ve done podcast episodes that I will link them in the show notes, folks about emotional resiliency. And people are always like, wait a second, I thought this was all about alcohol. Well, it is all about alcohol. Because just like Alice said, If we learn if we teach at a younger age, these are children. If parents understand more about emotional resiliency, it’s going to help us change the narrative and change the relationship that people have with alcohol on a global basis. That’s because at the end of the day, we aren’t drinking just because we love wine, or we like the taste of beer, we’re drinking because we believe that we are going to get something in that glass that is going to change or improve how we feel on the inside. And that isn’t sustainable. That is temporary. It is a temporary, momentary, very fleeting fact. And if we keep chasing that momentary fleeting effect, of course, we’re going to just run the risk of very negative out consequences that happen when we over drink alcohol, which is, it’s the same just like you said, it’s overeating. It’s overspending, it’s over. You know, all of us, we have coping mechanisms, and our coping mechanisms are there because we need to improve and become more flexible thinkers. I like that too. Bouncy, flexible, I wrote an article on the things that I learned from basketball, and in my life and playing basketball and bouncing back was one of them, because it is how we bounce that really determines what we you know, you fall down seven times, you got to get up eight, right? And we can all stay on to become much more emotionally resilient. And yes, absolutely. I’m you keep doing the work you’re doing with children. And I know you work with the parents too. I think what’s beautiful about your story, in particular, Alice is just the realization you as a professional still had work that you could learn, right, and implement. And we all can do that. We are all capable of that. We have that capacity, no matter how old we are, no matter how ingrained the stories are, you may have more work to do when the stories are really ingrained. Right. But it is possible. And thank you for sharing all about the bounce box. I think I need a bounce box myself. I want a rubber band ball that does I love. I love that concept, folks, I will definitely link it in the show notes. Because I know that there are parents out there listening. And I think that’s important too. There’s such a culture around, you know, I’m reading a book right now that I’m going to be sharing later, next year in 2024, with the author of that book, and it’s, it’s called, it’s not about the wine. Because it’s all about mommy wine culture. There’s a narrative that has been very prevalent and got ignited in a huge way during the pandemic, and of this whole idea that basically, alcohol is what helps us get through parenting. Right? Yeah. Which is sort of terrifying message really? Right. And I mean, right, yeah, yeah. And what are our parents? What are our children learning? By shirts that say, I, I drink wine? Because my kids wine or I, you know, or whatever, you know, Mommy needs more wine? Like, what is that? How telling them about parenting about what alcohol does? For us? This is the kind of narrative that is existing now, which I don’t even think was a part of the narrative when I was growing up. That’s not what, I don’t think that culture was there necessarily as much. But certainly, I know, from my perspective, my mother, definitely, I definitely felt like my mother drank because of me, which was not true, of course, but it was a message that I that I had to work on as an adult to, you know, to understand that it was there. So and, you know, and who wants the mean, is that really the mean? No one listening wants that message to be sent to their children? No, no. And I think the message we want to say is you have every skill and tool inside of you to manage, you don’t even need these any, you know, of course, you need like that support system. That is something you know, I say like who are the grown ups who can help you, or, you know, that kind of thing. But other than that, it’s all inside of you. You don’t need, right, I worked with people myself, I still do in a way that is trying to work myself out of a job, really, it’s about trying to help people become self coaches, be able to coach themselves out of a situation and have just learned the tools and really get the tools ingrained. It’s why the podcast is always here. That’s why there’s always assets in the Facebook group. There’s free assets to folks, if that’s where you’re at perfect, keep listening, keep, keep engaging, because all of it helps build that skill set and improves what you’re doing with your life. Absolutely. Yeah, so that’s the same with me, I have a waitlist. I mean, there’s there’s not enough kids therapists out there. So but it’s just I would love to catch all this early. So people don’t end up, you know, in a lot of counseling and having to seek help in other ways. Yeah. So thank goodness that there are you’re right, that we have a lot of work to do here in the United States as far as our mental health system for sure. Yeah. And I think that’s an important I think we’ll we can end on that note, there are resources available, folks, if you’re struggling, if you or someone in your family is struggling with their mental health, I really encourage you to seek help, because there’s no shame in it and you’re not broken, there’s nothing that you cannot learn to fix. Some people will may need medication to help them get there in the beginning. That’s cool, too. Right? We have to address our underlying mental health state because you can’t take away somebody’s primary coping mechanism. That’s one of the reasons I’m not a big fan of jumping right in with a 30 day break or anything like that. If you’ve been turning to alcohol and using it as your emotional coping system for the last decades or years, no matter or however long, right? It is really important to address what’s going on in your life. And as you are working on changing your relationship with alcohol, because without the underlying stuff being addressed, doing the work on changing the drinking is going to be really, really hard. Yep, absolutely. Yeah. And I have a little website too, with people. Like you’re saying, there’s so many resources out there, it’s bounce hyphen, box.com. And so if people are interested in those, you can get them online. But you can do your own version at home too. Like we’re saying there’s tons of resources out there to learn how to raise emotionally resilient kids and being in being a role model so you can also be emotionally resilient parent and model that was such a healthy way. So yeah. And then hopefully you can do all that. And again, if you’re, you’re using alcohol as your your primary tool of coping right now you can also figure that relationship out as well, because that’s what you’ve done. And I appreciate Alice, I appreciate you coming on. I appreciate you sharing this information. I appreciate you the work that you’re doing with kids. And folks, yeah, go check out the bounce box. I think if you have, especially if you have some kiddos at home that you, you know, and probably during this holiday season, you might be really like, Okay, I need a little help here. Right? Yes, yes. Well, thank you, Molly. And thank you, you’ve helped me so much. So I can’t tell you all the resources that you offer, have this been really transformative, transformative for me, so thank you. Thanks, Alice. Thank you for being here. And thank you for sharing your work with us. Absolutely. Thank you for listening to the alcohol minimalist podcast. Take something you learned from this episode and put it into action this week. Changing your drinking habits and creating a peaceful relationship with alcohol is 100% possible. You can stop worrying Stop feeling guilty about over drinking and become someone who desires alcohol less. Hum join me in making peace with alcohol. It’s my six month online course and group coaching program designed to help you build sustainable change. Give me six months and I’ll help you create peace.