EP #23

Cutback Coach with Founders Nick Allen and Ian Anderson

alcoholic minimalist podcast

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In this episode of “Breaking the Bottle Legacy,” Molly interviews Nick Allen and Ian Anderson, the founders of Cutback Coach, a service aimed at promoting mindful drinking rather than an all-or-nothing approach. Nick and Ian share their personal experiences with alcohol, detailing how familial impacts shaped their views. They discuss the traumatic effects of alcoholism within their families, highlighting the importance of maintaining a proactive approach to alcohol to prevent it from becoming a problem. Cutback Coach is presented as a solution that allows individuals to focus on moderation without quitting alcohol entirely. The founders emphasize the middle ground between sobriety and unrestricted drinking, promoting a mindful and intentional approach to alcohol consumption. They describe the Cutback Coach system, which provides recommended daily plans, allows plan adjustments weekly, and incorporates behavioral psychology tactics for accountability. The conversation explores the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on drinking habits, emphasizing the need for a responsible and mindful relationship with alcohol. Nick and Ian envision expanding the category of people proactively managing their alcohol intake and foresee growth opportunities for Cutback Coach beyond habit tracking, aiming to help individuals create a healthier connection with alcohol.

You’re listening to breaking the bottle legacy with Molly watts, Episode 23. Hi, I’m Molly, after a lifetime living under the influence of family alcohol abuse, spending more than 30 years worrying about alcohol and my own drinking, believing I had an unbreakable daily drinking habit, I changed my relationship with alcohol forever. If you want to change your drinking habits than breaking the bottle legacy is for you. My goal is to help you create a peaceful relationship with alcohol, past, present, and future. Each week all focus on real science and using your own brain to change your relationship with alcohol. Nothing has gone wrong, you’re not broken, you’re not sick. It’s not your genes. And creating peace is possible. I’m here to help you do it. Let’s start now. Well, hello, and welcome or welcome back to breaking the bottle legacy with me your host Molly watts, coming to you from Well, it’s been a pretty spectacular day here in Oregon. I’m recording later than usual late in the afternoon, had a full day of work and rushed home and really excited to share this interview today with you it is with Nick Allen and Ian Anderson. And Nick and Ian are the cofounders of cut back coach. So cutback coach is a wellness app. And they are creating basically an a service for people that helps them focus on mindful drinking, rather than an all or nothing approach. And it’s a behavioral psychology back system. And it provides everybody with their own personalized plan that is catered to their lifestyles, habits and individual goals. I’ve been using cut back coach, it is a text based system, which I really love and appreciate. And so I was super excited to get to talk to Nick and in Nick comes from a background where both of his parents were in recovery from addiction. So it very much shaped the way that his own view and his relationship with drinking began from an early age in actually has had a family that’s been severely impacted by alcohol for generations. In fact, he lost his own mother to alcoholism at the age of 11. So both of these guys share a background with having a family with alcoholism in it, which of course resonated with me. And the idea that they’ve come up with this really intuitive and useful and motivated system that doesn’t require you to quit drinking altogether, but makes those decisions mindful is exactly what is so important to me. So I just loved getting to talk to them. I can’t wait to share cut back coach with you. And so here is my conversation with Nick Allen and Ian Anderson. Hey, Nick. Hey, Ian, thank you so much for being with me today and taking the time to talk to breaking the bottle legacy. I really appreciate it. Hey, thank you so much for having us. We’re excited to be here. Awesome. So in the introduction, I kind of gave just a brief overview of who you guys are and cut back coach. But I want to dig deeper. And I want to talk a little bit about the backstory as to why I mean, there’s there’s apps, there’s a lot of apps, right. So tell me why you guys decided to start cut back coach? And what about the backstory and the history behind that for both of you that made this project worthwhile? Yeah, absolutely. So I’ll start this is Nick Allen. I’m the founder and CEO of cut back coach along alongside Ian Anderson. So alcohol has and my family have kind of a long history. And this is something that goes back for me, you know, to, to my parents, ultimately, I actually grew up in a household where both of my parents were in recovery from alcoholism for most of my life, and actually had been had been in AAA for more than 30 years and decided pretty early on in my life, that alcohol didn’t have a place in their lives and made a choice that really profoundly affected my family in choosing to to give up alcohol completely. And what that meant for me was you know, when I grew up and was kind of starting to explore my own relationship with alcohol, rather than kind of inflict on me or try to kind of push me towards the same path that that my parents took. Instead, they really helped me to understand my own risk factors when it came to alcohol and a lot about their story around kind of drinking and the relationship that they had with drinking when when I was a child and when my sister was growing up and it’s For me that that really instilled in me early on this idea of keeping alcohol front of mind, as I explored my own relationship, and making sure that it was, it was something that I was being proactive in managing and keeping tabs on, so that it didn’t become a problem in my life. And so I like to think that my journey to founding cutback code was, was really forged in this, you know, 10 year plus now, experience of kind of exploring my own relationship with alcohol, realizing that I do enjoy it, and that didn’t have a desire to cut it out of my life entirely. And sobriety has never really felt like the right path for me. But that there was an opportunity for me to, to kind of be mindful and intentional about the role that it played in my life. And so for me, despite not wanting to, you know, take this path of kind of all or nothing, I have recognized my own kind of tendencies around drinking and, and I have had some time, certainly where I’ve overdone it. And it felt like to me something that was a real opportunity area to manage in the same way that I’ve learned to kind of manage things like my diet, and my exercise routine and my mindfulness routine, to be proactive and kind of keeping tabs on and developing systems around my drinking, so that it stays on my terms, and it stays kind of in a comfortable place in my life. So it’s been a long journey to getting here to, to building a service that I believe can help millions of folks who, you know, enjoy drinking, and maybe don’t want to quit entirely, yet, who nonetheless, you know, have an opportunity to change the role that alcohol plays in their lives in order to improve their overall health and wellness. And that’s really what cutback coaches is setting out to do. That’s, and my co founder, Ian has has a kind of, you know, related story around kind of his family’s history with alcohol. And so we found each other kind of in this shared story, and I’ll let him share share your story as well. Awesome. II and let’s hear it. Yeah, hi. It’s great to be here. My name is Ian Anderson, I’m a co founder of cut back coach as well. So there’s not really two ways about it, I had a pretty intense and traumatic experience with with sort of alcohol in my family when I was a child, I think it’s kind of worth noting, I grew up with the identical twin brother. So for people out there that kind of, like understand how much that can lead to like sort of a protective barrier that we had that kind of helped us through this. But essentially, probably around the time that I was five or six or seven, my father started drinking more heavily. And it went from the way he describes it six drinks six beers a night to seven to eight to 12 over time, and he was in construction. So you know, he would just go grind all day and come home and, and make this is his pattern that he got into and couldn’t really pull himself out of very easily. And it was at that time that I believe there, my parents relationship started just kind of fall apart a little bit. My mom would pick up the habit of drinking, which she never really had prior to being married and having kids and she was someone that would drink in private. So she would kind of lock herself in her room and hide while while she drank. So this was the pattern that my brother and I and I have a couple other siblings, but they they moved out with their step parents. So this was going on for several years. And at some point, sort of the silver lining of this whole thing is my dad had a wake up moment. And he said, If I don’t do something and fix this situation for my kids, they’re gonna end up in some sort of childcare, it was getting that intense. So he quit cold turkey after trying a couple of times and like talking to friends and finding that it wasn’t working for him. And so yeah, he quit cold turkey moved out of the house. And we went into a situation where we would visit him on the weekends. And I think this is kind of important, just to mention, as I lead up to sort of the pinnacle of the story, I was I was in living with my mom full time. But that didn’t happen very long, because she got to a point where she couldn’t even take care of my brother and I, she just couldn’t stop drinking, she couldn’t really pull herself out of it. And we had some very sort of traumatic experiences during that one or two year period where we were trying to live with her full time and my dad was visiting, and he sort of had to like, let us go see her. And even though he knew it wasn’t a safe situation, there were a couple incidents that led to sort of the final straw. And eventually, we switched places and started live with my dad full time. And this was great because he was sober and clean now and he was at a point where he could raise us and it was a very formative period of my childhood after that point, whereas the previous period was sort of almost blocked out if you will, like I don’t even really remember much of it. Unfortunately, that’s one that’s one of the last times that I really saw my mom and two years later, she passed away because she wasn’t able to sort of get out of the habit of alcohol and she died due to liver and order organ failure due to alcoholism. So it’s a pretty dark story. But you know, it’s really important here because it’s been front and center my entire life. I’ve always talked about it with my twin brother. We’ve always tried to make it something that we generationally change it And we kind of take it upon ourselves as a responsibility. This wasn’t something that just affected my mom and dad, it was my uncles and aunts, and their grandparents, my, my grandfather and grandmother both died based on complications due to alcoholism, pretty much on both sides of the family. Well, that’s not, that’s not entirely true. But on my, on my, on my father’s side. So it’s been something that’s just been all over the place and my family. My my aunt, I just gotta give her a shout out, she was on a pretty destructive path as well. And she pulled herself out. And now she’s just like this beacon of light in my family and, like, so inspirational to us. So it’s not just my brother and I and my siblings, but my there are some other folks in my generation that are really trying to make a shift here. So interestingly, when Nick came to me with the idea of cutback coach, to bring it full circle, it was I never thought I’d be have the opportunity to help build a company to help millions of people with an issue that has so deeply affected my life. So it was an obvious like, Yes, I’m totally into this, I really want to do this. I’m really excited. And I get to work with Nick, who I’ve known for years, and we get along really well. And it’s, it’s that’s sort of the backstory, and we use that. Honestly, we use that motivation every day to just, I love to snack keep trying to do better. Yeah, I love the fact that you guys come from two very divergent stories and backgrounds in terms of how alcohol was a part of your lives, but gives you both perspective and a different way to address a problem that is, as you mentioned, really, can affect millions and millions and does affect millions and millions of people. So it’s so great that you that you joined forces and decided to, you know, create a program. And I don’t want to say because I really think that you guys have a bigger a bigger purpose than just creating an app. Right? I mean, it’s not all about just another tool. And But tell me, let’s talk about the nuts and bolts of cutback. Because it’s an important part of it. And I actually, I’m involved with moderation management, and you guys are our partners with moderation. And I was just talking to somebody today about recommending cut back coach is a tool. It is fundamentally something that helps people both plan out a goal for the week, and then track how they do against that goal. Correct? Yeah, that’s exactly right. And so you know, given that you and I, Ian and I have both had experiences in our family where we’ve, you know, and we both have the utmost respect for folks who decide that alcohol has no place in their life, you know, both in my families were were affected in a way that was there was really positive by the choice of our parent or father and my parents to be completely sober. What we realized is that there’s an there are many, many others who for whom sobriety is just not the right fit, or at least not the right fit right now. And yet, who nonetheless have an opportunity to be more mindful and intentional about the role that alcohol plays in their life. And so cutback coach is really designed with the idea that there’s a middle ground between, you know, this all or nothing approach to sobriety or kind of like nothing at all, and getting no help. And so the opportunity that we’ve kind of identified here to help folks in a different way than a lot of the traditional services that you see in the alcohol health space today is in kind of meeting you where you are, and developing a personal plan to kind of help you achieve your specific goals. And for some people, that’s, you know, cutting back a lot, for some people that’s simply kind of keeping tabs on and monitoring the role, you know, when and how much they’re drinking. But the entire cup coach system really revolves around this idea that we each week, we give you a recommended daily plan. And we look at your past history of you know, the last few weeks that you’ve you’ve been drinking kind of what your patterns look like, we look at the goals that you shared with us when you sign up, and we generate these recommendations, you know, to help kind of pace with you in order to reach your specific goals, whether that’s, you know, decreasing the frequency with which you drink, you know, fewer days of the week, decreasing the the intensity of those drinking days. So, you know, maybe cutting out those last few at the end of the night that ultimately end up making you feel not so great the next morning. And so we take those targets, we give you this recommendation. And then the key is that each Sunday, our members actually have the opportunity to switch things around and kind of update their plans for the week ahead. This is a behavioral psychology tactic known as pre commitments and the power of kind of timeboxing. So our members actually create a accountability roadmap for the week ahead. So they tell us, you know, on Monday through Wednesday, I’m going to try to stay dry, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and maybe I’ll allow myself to have you know, a couple a couple of glasses of wine and then Sunday I’m gonna go back to kind of to having a dry day. And so with that, rather than cutback coach each day needing to kind of dictate to you like Hey, today you should do this or you know us telling you what to do. Rather what we do is actually remind you via text message on a daily day assess the intention that you had for yourself at the beginning of the week. So we can come to you on a daily basis with our with our text based reminders and say, Hey, you identified today as a day that you wanted to try to dry. And so let’s let’s kind of work on kind of keeping that intention. And so the idea is that you have this this roadmap that you set up front, we give you these daily reminders to help you keep accountable to that plan that you’ve made for yourself. And then I think one of the things that’s kind of fun about the cutback card system is, is that you actually track your drinks in real time via text message. So instead of actually having to go and remember to find the app on the third page of your homescreen, and go in and kind of enter your numbers, as you’re drinking, we have this really low friction path to tracking and engaging with us, which is as simple as texting a friend. So you can send us a little wine glass emoji to text to text, a glass of wine, or the word wine, if that’s easier for you. And our system will respond and kind of give you an update about where you are relative to your plan for the day. And for the week overall. One last piece of kind of the nuts and bolts of the experience is that in addition to kind of his planning and tracking process, we actually do have a team of real coaches that are sitting behind the text messages. And I think this is part of the magic of the experience that a lot of folks are really delighted by when you need a little bit of extra help. When you’re feeling maybe you know, the craving and you’re not really sure what to do when you said you’re gonna have a dry day and you’re feeling like a little wobbly, you can text us and just ask for ask for an address for a little bit of encouragement to push you in the right direction. And we’ve got a train team of real people who will who will kind of jump into the to the conversation thread again, via text and help kind of, you know, Coach you towards the directions and staying accountable to your goals. And so in a nutshell, kind of the system is non judgmental, we’re, you know, we’re really about kind of meeting you where you are, and not making you feel bad about breaking your targets, but helping you build the tools and the kind of habits to get drinking into a place that you feel more comfortable with and happier with relative to your overall kind of health and wellness picture. And, and that’s really what cutback coach is all about. Yeah. Which is why I love it. And I am a member of that’s what we’re called members, I guess. So when I changed my relationship with alcohol. And I’ve talked about this on the podcast, one of the most important things for me, was in the beginning piece was meeting myself where I was at. And at first that was really hard to do. Because I was writing down a number that was higher than I logistically thought that it should be like I in my mind, I was like, No, that’s too much. I don’t want to say that. But the problem is when you are trying to change a habit that’s been ingrained, and I had a 30 year daily drinking habit that I was trying to work on. And if you tell yourself and you try to restrict from the beginning, what I’ve seen, and what I experienced myself was then I had this initial, just want to rebel against it. And instead, using my planning brain and actually meeting myself where I was at making a plan ahead of time, and then not breaking that promise to myself, set up a pattern where I realized that I could make a plan, keep that plan. And then over time, I reduced that plan, then over time I added in alcohol free days, then over time, you know, that’s and that is what I really appreciate about cutback coaches, because having that plan is a was really an integral part of me changing my relationship with alcohol forever. And it had to but but people often tell me, they don’t want to plan. Because one they they don’t they feel bad about how much they’re writing down, or two, they’re afraid they’re gonna fail. So yeah, and I mean, it’s such an interesting thing about our societal societal relationship with alcohol and that like, proactively managing the role that alcohol plays in your life is something to be proud of. And even if you may be starting from a place that is a little higher than you feel comfortable with. The fact is just being in a place where you’re trying to make an effort to change your habits is something that you know, when you think about, you know, folks who are starting to kind of change their eating routines to to lose a little weight or starting to kind of build new exercise routines. These are things that we’re proud of, and we’re okay with starting from a place where we’re not professionals, and we’re not hitting our goals every single day or going to the gym five days a week. And yet with drinking, there’s all this guilt and shame built into our societal relationship with alcohol, but like, either you have a drinking problem, and you need to quit entirely and that’s the only path for you. Or as kind of this false narrative goes, you’re totally fine and everything’s healthy and, and kind of, you know, no system needed. And the fact is, it’s it’s not something to be ashamed of, to want to have a system and to start working towards making a change, and we have to start somewhere. And so I had the exact same experience, I started really slow. In my own experience with cutback coaches, I was developing the system, just kind of logging and making sure that I had an understanding of where I was with my habits. And then it became easier and easier to build new routines around. You know, when those days were going to be that I just knew, you know, every Monday through Thursday, like those are just days that I don’t drink and it becomes was a lot easier to do that. Once you’ve kind of got this this routine built in, and a system to help you kind of, you know, adapt, reflect and and optimize that routine to best fit your lifestyle over time. Yeah. And one of the things I know that I mentioned with Ian, when we first chatted about you guys, and getting you guys on the podcast was I told I love the fact that it’s text based, like I love the fact that it’s text based. Because, yeah, I don’t like the apps on my phone. They just I like, Seriously, I’ve got pages, I just me crazy. So the fact that it’s text base just works for me. I mean, and it’s so much easier, so fine to just shoot a number shoot a whatever back to a text. And, and I appreciate the reminders. Yeah, I really believe that the text message is a really key part of of what makes us different, and what helps us to stand out and kind of helping folks really achieve really meaningful results. When we look at a lot of the other kind of habit apps, you know, not just in alcohol, but across kind of diet, fitness, mindfulness, I think where a lot of these apps fail is that folks just fail to actually build the habit around using the app in the first place, before they ever start making progress towards the target habit that they’re, they’re seeking to change. And so by meeting our customers, in their text, message inbox, we’re kind of latching on to a habit that everyone already has, which is checking your text messages a bunch of times a day. And that makes getting started with us incredibly easy. And you’re you’re starting to work on your drinking on day one, rather than needing to work on figuring out how to use an app or building that daily app habit before you ever start making progress towards you know, the goals that you’re trying to achieve. So I really do think that’s that’s a part of the magic that that a lot of cutback coach members report. Really, really loving as well. Yeah, you started right before the pandemic, right? Yeah. So we were we launched the product will be less exotic, slightly after but But I started working on it in about January. So like, Yeah, three months into our development process. The world changed forever. Yeah, interesting timing, no doubt about it. But it’s actually, I’m wondering, because in this realm of alcohol, we have seen how COVID has impacted people’s drinking habits. And unfortunately, it not in a positive way, many people report that they have been drinking more than they ever used to and alcohol sales during the first quarter, I think of 2020 or second quarter of 2020. We’re, you know, record. So talk to me about how that has transpired, how that has played into the growth of the company and kind of what you see, as far as that’s been, has that been something that people have said, I found this because of, you know, a relationship that I had with alcohol during COVID? Yeah, I mean, absolutely. So our customers, you know, talk about the stresses of the pandemic, on a daily basis. I mean, we hear it all the time of folks who are, you know, joining, because of the stresses of, you know, raising young kids at home, and also having to have a job and also having to kind of, you know, manage all of these different kinds of realities. In a context, that’s, that’s changed so dramatically. So, anecdotally, we get it from our customers a lot. And, and the fact is, I mean, when you look at the data over the last year, you know, there’s a study from Jama that basically identified that three out of four US adults were drinking more frequently in 2020, than they did in 2019. And so, you know, without a doubt, our societal relationship with alcohol has changed pretty dramatically over the last year. And yet, we still feel kind of isolated in this idea that like, am I drinking too much, right? It’s something that’s really hard to talk about. And yet the majority of people, you know, from this study are saying that they are, in fact, drinking more than last year. So I think the first message here is that, you know, if you’re feeling like you’re drinking a little bit more this year than you have in the past, like you aren’t alone. And that’s not something that, you know, should isolate you, but other rather, it’s kind of a collective stress that we’ve all felt over the last year and alcohol being a collective coping mechanism. But I think the moment of time in time for cutback, which kind of, is really interesting, because, you know, I think we’re reaching this crescendo in terms of this our society or kind of perspectives on drinking, it’s, you know, there’s a lot more kind of stories that are coming out. Now, the New York Times has been writing a lot about, you know, this relationship between alcohol and our society. And I think we’re at a point where we’re right on the precipice of this conversation, breaking into the kind of the popular wellness dialogue, basically, where, you know, just like we, you know, five or 10 years ago, we didn’t really talk about mindfulness and meditation as part of our wellness routines. I think we’re getting it we’re getting to the place where alcohol will be, you know, and proactively managing the role that alcohol plays in our life will be a an integral part of our proactive wellness toolkits. And that’s really kind of what CABAC coach wants to help achieve is to change this conversation from one of, you know, negativity and shame and kind of addiction and you know, the word these kind of words around alcohol being a problem into an app. portunity Where you know, anyone who drinks should be thinking about the role that alcohol plays in their wellness. And that should be something that’s a default on state, not something that you only do and it becomes a problem in your life. And so I think the pandemic is accelerating that a lot, because many, many more people are experiencing, you know, alcohol, you know, as a part of their lives, that’s, that’s maybe a little bit bigger than they want it to be. I wouldn’t, I think there’s also something interesting here where there’s like nuggets to point out about the opposite side of the conversation, too, I have had conversations, probably more with like friends and such who have like harnessed the energy of the pandemic, to try to better themselves a little bit more. So I think we’re seeing some of that happen during the pandemic. Also, just something that’s been on my mind is, I do think that there might be like a second wave, so to speak once that once we have sort of a reopening, after the pandemic, people kind of getting overly excited to come back in and, and maybe go a little overboard, then too. So we, we talk a lot about, like, mindful drinking. And so what would that mean to you as you go back in? And how can you set yourself up for success to have as much fun and have the drinks that you want to but do it in a way that’s as responsible as possible, it’s, it’s a lot like the dry January thing, where if you, if you don’t quite do dry January, right, you might actually enter February drinking a little more than you intended to. So we want, as people kind of reenter after the pandemic, we want them thinking about building really great habits around mindfulness. And then one other thing I just noted here, there’s been another boom during the pandemic, which has been for non alcoholic, non alcohol brands. And this has just been fascinating to watch. I think it was some of the brands like athletic brewing, it might have been grew like 500%, in one month, I’m probably getting that quote wrong. But they’ve certainly grown that much in the past year. And it’s just really exciting and sort of motivating to see the culture around non alcoholic brands and moderation. And even, you know, some of the celebrity conversations, bringing this all mainstream, so that there’s just, you know, honestly, it’s really nice to be part of that, that conversation right now. It’s like it feels really positive for us. Absolutely. I’m glad you brought that up, because it actually one of the things that has been for me, and one of the reasons that I I talk about my peaceful relationship with alcohol, and it very much is a mindful and intentional relationship with alcohol. I also had, I think I may have said this before to EA, and it’s, I consider myself an alcohol minimalist. And I and I say that withdrawal intention, because I think that the the idea for people of moderation. And cutting back sometimes still implies this idea that, you know, alcohol is a known toxin, it’s a it’s a chemical agent, it is something it’s a drug, and we have to be careful with it, there’s just no two ways about it. But at the same time, we can enjoy the therapeutic benefits of it in a limited way. And the conversation does need to focus on that mindful intention and how we’re going to incorporate it without, you know, the negative side effects. The problem is with alcohol, that the negative side effects start really quickly for people. And, you know, the more drinks that you have the the it’s a very precipitous decline, how quickly the positive effects outweigh, you know, the negative effects outweigh the positive effects. And so, I really think that the whole idea of being able to stay ahead of that, and especially when we’re coming out of the pandemic, keeping a mindfulness approach to is going to be critical, critical for people. Yeah, absolutely agree. I mean, for us, you know, cutting back, it’s really about getting more, you know, it’s not about this idea that, you know, it’s, you know, some restrictive thing that needs to kind of feel really, really hard or really like it’s kind of cramping your style, but there are there are clearly, you know, drinks that can be cut from, from most people’s routines, frankly, that that will help you feel better the next day and minimize this kind of downside effects are really helping you maximize the enjoyment of, of the ones that you do have. And I think that’s what the what, you know, for us, it’s it’s helping you get more out of life out of drinking and out of the other areas of your life by just being a little bit more thoughtful about the ones that you do have and the ones that you choose that maybe you don’t actually need. Yeah, exactly. And that’s maximum maximum enjoyment minimal, you know, detriment. Absolutely. So, I know that I kind of mentioned this to you guys ahead of time and I just want to get your thoughts on it. Because while one of the things that I really focus on when I’m talking with people and as a part of my journey has been creating a better mindset a thought thought process, understanding the science of alcohol, and really wrapping my brain around how I want to think about alcohol. So while I think cup at coach is a wonderful tool for a part of changing my relationship, one of the things that has been really pivotal for me, like I said, is changing how I think about alcohol in the first place. So what are you framing it so that I’m not looking for it to relieve anxiety, understanding that actually drinking more than just a drink after work, can actually have a rebound effect and raise anxiety because of the chemical impacts in the brain? Where do you guys see your role with cutback? Coach, moving going forward? What growth areas do you think are there for you in terms of helping people navigate this relationship with alcohol in more than just a habit tracking way? Yes, I think it’s a really good question. And, you know, we we ask this question of ourselves a lot. You know, I think we’re where we see the opportunity for cutback coach, on the one hand is helping to normalize the idea of managing alcohol proactively for more for more people, right. So like, I think that there’s an audience that has kind of connected the dots already between the role that alcohol plays in, you know, other areas of your of their health and wellness, whether it’s kind of mental health, you know, anxiety and stress levels, whether it’s kind of physical, you know, diet, exercise, kind of those types of goals, sleep quality, it turns out that alcohol can have, you know, really profound impacts on all of those areas. And yet, I think for many people, it’s not a, it’s an area that they would consider proactively managing, because, you know, there’s all this stigma that kind of comes with it. And so I think our, you know, the big opportunity area that we see is kind of opening this category to more people, and helping to them to understand the role that alcohol plays in their health and wellness. And I think from and so that’s kind of, you know, a little bit of what I would consider like category expansion, if you will, in terms of, of broadening this definition of like people who are managing their alcohol proactively away from, you know, the, any kind of semblance of problem drinking persona, which I think is a really problematic word in general. And we, we really try and stay away from that. So I think that’s one area, in terms of kind of how we help folks understand and, and change the role that alcohol plays in their life and change their thinking around drinking, I think that the coaching component of our business becomes really interesting. So yes, we’ve got a tracker, yes, we’re going to show you things like insights and stats around how your drinking has changed over time and, and what that means for your health and wellness. But the other piece that I think makes us really different is that we actually have humans behind the system there to help kind of coach you through these these difficult moments there to help you kind of reframe, you know, that stress drink at the end of a hard day, and maybe try and kind of avoid that one, so that you can, you know, more enjoy the celebratory, positive role that alcohol can play in your life. And so we do this a lot. We work with folks, you know, on a daily basis, who are, you know, realizing that they don’t really want to drink but that their habits really drive them towards drinking, you know, a really common one being like, you finish work. And the way that you transition from work into home is you put that glass of wine, or we get a lot of folks saying like, I drink when I cook dinner, and that’s just like what I do. And so for us, as folks are kind of working with us and starting to reflect a little bit more on like, where are the areas and their habits that that they have associations with alcohol, we help folks to kind of recognize those triggers and replace the routine, so that they can still get those enjoyment moments, those relaxation moments and find ways to de stress that don’t necessarily need to revolve around alcohol from like a from a psychological standpoint. Yeah. I love that. Absolutely. Well, that’s the you know, the bottom line is bringing more of this to the conversation and I really appreciate the whole attitude that making it something that is just normal. Right. Talk to Dr. David Nutt. UK scientists very well known and wrote this book called Drink the new science of alcohol in your health. And he basically says that, you know, just like you know, your blood pressure, just like you know, your cholesterol, you should know how many drinks, right? And it’s just kind of that simple. Like, there’s no judgment applied to it, there’s no negativity, but you, you pay attention to it, you know, you’re just mindful about it. And I want people to hear this, that listen to this show that that’s possible for all of us. It is it’s absolutely possible. And it doesn’t have to be painful and it doesn’t have to be stressful and it doesn’t have to be a real, you know, negative, unenjoyable thing. It’s actually really cool. And it’s actually fun and it’s actually just like everything else that you’re talking about. But it opens up your life. I don’t find counting or managing or thinking about it restrictive, I find it empowering. I totally agree. And I’ve had very similar experiences and kind of my own kind of experience with with the product with this tracking is once you get to a place where you haven’t locked in, and you’ve got your patterns, and you start to see, see and feel those changes. I mean, it makes a world of difference. And I just feel totally comfortable with my relationship with drinking now, with with the result of being able to kind of have this structured system to help help along the way. So that’s really what we’re what we’re hoping to help as many people as possible to to achieve. Perfect, you guys, I love this, I am super excited to share this with my community, I’m going to put links to cut back coach in my show notes so you guys can find this. And just really encourage everybody to check it out. It’s a wonderful, easy to use tool for helping you change your relationship with alcohol. And just to get more mindful about it, which cannot be a bad thing for anybody that’s listening to this show. They hear me say it all the time. And that’s really what I want you to do is be thinking ahead of time making a plan ahead of time setting yourself up for success. And and with cutback coach, it’s going to be all the easier just having the support and having a coach behind you somebody that’s going to even give you some positive encouragement along the way. We really look forward to to working with all of you and you can do this. It’s something that we can we can all improve in our lives and and it’s something you absolutely can do. So we look forward to working with you. Awesome, Nick, and I really appreciate you taking the time and I can’t wait to see where cutback coach goes in the future. Thanks so much, Molly. All right. Thanks so much for having us. Thanks, you guys. Thank you for listening to breaking the bottle legacy. This podcast is dedicated to helping you change your drinking habits and to create a peaceful relationship with alcohol. Take something that you learned in today’s episode and apply it to your life this week. Transformation is possible. You have the power to change your relationship with alcohol. Now, for more information, please visit me at www dot Molly watts.com