Binge Drinking & Breast Cancer: Kathryn's Story
In this episode of the Alcohol Minimalist podcast, Molly introduces a fellow coach, Kathryn Elliot, who focuses on helping people with binge drinking issues and shares her inspiring story of resilience amid a breast cancer diagnosis. The episode delves into the importance of self-awareness, the link between alcohol consumption and breast cancer risk, and the transformative power of choosing an alcohol-free lifestyle. Molly and Kathryn emphasize the significance of understanding one’s relationship with alcohol and provide insights into their coaching approaches, fostering a sense of shared journey and support for positive change.
Hey, it’s Molly from alcohol minimalist. What do you do in this October? I would love to have you join me in my more sober October challenge. What do I mean by more sober October, it simply means that we’re going to add in more alcohol free days than you currently been doing, whether that’s one or two or 31. It’s up to you, you get to set your own goal and that’s why it’s more sober October. You can check it out and learn more at get got sunnyside.co/molly It’s totally free. I’ve got grises I’m going to be going live every week to announce the prize winners. And it’s just going to be an awesome event. So I would love to have you join me. You can learn more at get.sunnyside.co/molly and you can get registered today. Welcome to the alcohol minimalist podcast. I’m your host Molly watts. If you want to change your drinking habits and create a peaceful relationship with alcohol, you’re in the right place. This podcast explores the strategies I use to overcome a lifetime of family alcohol abuse, more than 30 years of anxiety and worry about my own drinking and what felt like an unbreakable daily drinking habit. Becoming an alcohol minimalist means removing excess alcohol from your life. So it doesn’t remove you from life. It means being able to take alcohol or leave it without feeling deprived. It means to live peacefully, being able to enjoy a glass of wine without feeling guilty and without needing to finish the bottle. With Science on our side will shatter your past patterns and eliminate your excuses. Changing your relationship with alcohol is possible. I’m here to help you do it. Let’s start now. Hello and welcome or welcome back to the alcohol minimalist podcast. With me your host Molly Watts coming to you from a very warm Oregon still sunny, dry, a little bit windy little I mean a little touch a wind which is actually really nice because it’s been about 95 degrees. So very warm for us Oregonians but I am loving it. And I want to encourage you if you have never visited the Pacific Northwest, this is the time to do it come in the summertime. It’s gorgeous. It’s epic, the mountains, the you can see clear to the mountains, the go out to the coast and go visit the ocean. I shared a picture from the Oregon coast in my Facebook group recently. It’s beautiful, you really got to come see it. And come see it when the weather’s like this, please. Hey, I hope you are having a great day, wherever you’re listening from. I have a prize winner this week. And if you would like to be entered into my prize drawing, I do a prize drawing every other week for some alcohol, minimalist swag. All you got to do is leave a review of the podcast and or of my book breaking the bottle legacy. You can also leave a comment on YouTube, which is exactly what this week’s winner did. I encourage YouTube comments because that actually helps people find content on YouTube. It raises the show in that algorithm. And really that’s what it’s all about. We are trying to pay it forward. So you can you can share the show you can comment on an episode you can leave a review. And all of those things help people who are searching for this content find us so I appreciate it. And if you are at Jake Bradley 9490 at Jake Bradley 9490 You are this week’s winner. You left a comment on my episode with Molly Kimball, saying another great and informative episode. Thanks for the alternative and scientifically backed insight to such a nuanced topic. You’re welcome at Jake Bradley 9490. All you got to do is send me a note Molly at Molly watts.com and I will mail you out your alcohol minimalist swag. This week on the show I have the pleasure of talking to another Australian. I’m loving the Australian connection. I know I have a lot of Australian listeners and I have Australian clients that I’ve worked with. And so it’s fun to share this work all across the globe with people who are trying to change their relationship with alcohol. And this person is somebody who aligns with me completely in terms of the work she’s doing her her program is called the alcohol mindset coach. So she talks a lot about the same type of cognitive behavioral type ideas and thoughts around alcohol. We do things a little bit differently and she is very focused on helping people with binge drinking, because that’s her history. That’s her backstory. That isn’t my backstory, I was more of a daily habit drinker. And so it’s an interesting conversation. She’s also a fellow mother of boys. So I love having that conversation. And she has a really incredible story, including a breast cancer diagnosis that she received pretty much immediately after she had decided to give up alcohol. I think you’re really going to enjoy my conversation with her. Here is my conversation with Katherine Elliot. Hey, Catherine, thank you so much for being here on the alcohol minimalist Podcast. I’m so excited to have our conversation today. Not only because you and I have a very similar mindset when it comes to helping people with their relationship with alcohol, but because you’re a fellow mama boys, so you know, what else could be better than to talk with another alcohol coach who understands my perspective, not only on alcohol, but my life raising voice? Absolutely, it’s always so great to connect with someone who says mother of all boys, and I’m really looking forward to this conversation. I think changing your relationship with alcohol is such a, it’s a complex topic. And it’s a really interesting one. And there’s no right way of approaching it. Everyone needs to find their own sort of formula that works for them. What I do know is that many people all over the world really struggle with their relationship with alcohol. And that’s why it’s fabulous to have conversations like these. So thanks so much for having me. I’m looking forward to it. Yeah. And we should just state right from the start that that around the world means that you and I are like on separate days on separate continents. speaking to you from you’re coming to me from Melbourne, Australia. Exactly. Melbourne, Australia, and probably different time zones. It’s hard. Yes. Yeah. Like 717 18 hours, something like that. Yeah. Yeah, it’s Monday morning here. 11am. So I’m guessing it’s probably Sunday for you. Is it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Sunday evening. Exactly. So we’re just you’re just a day ahead. Yeah, it’s funny, because I’ve got clients all over the world. So I often have to stop and go, Okay, so they’re like, I’m in the future. They’re behind, you got to work, work it all out. But this is the fabulous thing about this community as well. You can connect over zoom so regularly and through podcasts, and you realize that there are a lot of similarities in, you know, the way people feel about their relationship with alcohol to and then even that it can have, yeah, and I know I have listeners in Australia, because there are parts of my Facebook group. And I know that so my Australian friends. Hello. Let’s talk a little bit about your story, because it’s a really powerful story. And it’s one of the reasons I really wanted to have you here is because your your relationship with alcohol was different than my experience. And so I’d love to hear you share kind of, you know, your upbringing, kind of where that led and then ultimately, when you changed it and that holds, you know what, what happened after that as well is it’s all it’s all a big it’s a it’s a lot, right? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So my relationship with alcohol started where a lot of Australians relationship with alcohol started as a teenager, I started drinking when I was probably around 14, I had my first drink. When I I think I probably took a bottle of gin out of my parents have met with a girlfriend and decided to experiment and we got horrifically drunk and we also smoked packet of cigarettes as well. And I remember being in the bathtub at the end of the night with my girlfriend, there was no water in there. But we were just so out of control that we felt so sick, we just had to seek refuge in the bathtub. But I do remember that first experience with alcohol was one that I that that feeling of oblivion and just being somewhere else for a while really was something that I found quite exciting, I think. And then as I was rebelling and doing something that I wasn’t supposed to be doing. And I guess it wasn’t until I was 16 that I started to binge drink excessively on weekends. But it was that first that first sort of experimentation with alcohol that I really remember and that feeling of our Gosh, it feels good just to lose your head for for a minute. And I think the The other thing was that in Australian culture, it’s always been a rite of passage as a teenager to you know, drink excessively, that binge drinking or drinking a lot on weekends was something to celebrate, it was accepted. And it was something that really we all do every every weekend is as a teenager and a young adult growing up in the 80s and 90s. It wasn’t something that was looked upon or frowned upon. And it wasn’t really something that you looked at and thought, Oh, I’m, I’m doing something that’s damaging my health. In fact, for me, it was the complete opposite. As a young woman who had quite a, I guess, a large capacity to be able to drink a lot and keep up with the boys. I had a lot of positive affirmation around my drinking identity. And so I saw it as something that was a really good thing, and that I needed to almost live up to this drinking persona. And I had nicknames. And I would often get encouraged to stay out later, because I wasn’t one of those people who would, you know, be sick or whatever. When I drank, I was very much able to tolerate large amounts of alcohol, and then I’d be able to get up the next morning as well. And although I didn’t feel you know, my best, I didn’t get the the worst hangovers either. So I can see now how, as I was growing up and developing, I saw my relationship with alcohol as a sort of excessive binge drinker, as a woman who could drink a lot. It was actually a positive reinforcement. Okay, that was when you were a kid or you know, a teenager. And then how did that progress as you got older? Did you keep up with the binging as you as you became, you know, as you went on to be married and a mother and yeah, absolutely. So it’s funny. Now I look back on my relationship with alcohol, I can see that there were red flags from from the early days of when I was 16 1718, there were there was a lot of blackout drinking, where I would not remember things. And I would behave in a way that I just really regretted I was, you know, in a couple of serious relationships over that time. And I look back and feel quite distressed at the way that I behaved. But I didn’t really put two and two together until, I guess, 30 years later, once I decided to, you know, take an extended break from drinking. And I guess my drinking wasn’t a physical dependency or a daily dependency, it was very much the type of drinking where I didn’t have an off switch. I was very confused. Because on one hand, I had quite a healthy life. You know, I did lots of exercise. I looked after my diet, I drank my green juices, I practice yoga, I meditated. But then, often on the weekend, I was out getting absolutely, you know, blind. It wasn’t every weekend either. Sometimes I was able to moderate. But that required a lot of effort and a lot of rules. But I also didn’t like the way that felt either. Because once I started drinking, I wanted to keep going, it was almost like because as a binge drinker, I had developed this habit of once you drink, you keep drinking, there’s almost like you’re just chasing this excessive drinking amount. You can’t you can’t stop. And so when you do try and moderate, that doesn’t feel good either. So I guess the binges became less frequent. As I became older, had children moved into, I guess, more, you know, responsible, you know, work in corporate roles. And one of the things one of the rules I always had was that I never really excessively drank when I was working, it was just one of those things. I just chose not to drink really at all. Because I knew that that was a real, you know, tipping point for me. If something happened, you know, a work environment, then I would be very concerned about it. So generally, my binge drinking really happened a lot in my in my personal life. So my husband and I used to drink a lot together. I had lots of friends, that also were binge drinkers. So we enabled a lot of excessive drinking. And for me, the most difficult part about it was the relationship that I had with myself waking up in, in shame in thinking, why did I behave like that? Why can I remember what happened? And why can’t I stop this pattern of drinking? I don’t want to do this anymore. But the more I put pressure on myself, the harder it is. And it didn’t matter to me whether I went six months without a binge or not the fact that I couldn’t control or get that recipe, right? I didn’t know what what did I need to throw into, into the recipe to ensure that I didn’t have a binge and I tried so many different ingredients, whether that was not drinking wine, having, you know, a water every other drink, not drinking cocktails, all sorts of different things. And yes, sometimes it worked. But more often than not, the build up over time meant that I was always likely to have a binge at some point in time. And look, it wasn’t until April 2019, I was away on a family holiday. My three sons were probably around, you know, 1413 and 11. And I got horrifically drunk with a friend of mine. And my boys saw me intoxicated out of control, I fell back and hit my head. And I woke up the next morning, and my husband said to me, do you remember what happened last night, and all I can remember is I had this throbbing pain. And I said, I have no idea. And he told me and it was that point that I did some deep soul searching that morning. And I thought, this is not the person I want to be doesn’t align with my values. I, when I saw the look in my boy’s eyes have just deep sadness and worry. I thought, right, I need to change and the only thing that came to mind was I wanted to take an extended break from drinking. I wasn’t going to put a timeframe on going back to drinking. Because in the past, that led me to binging again, I’d binge beforehand, I’d take a break and then I’d binge afterwards there wasn’t this embracing of, you know, what gains? Can an alcohol free lifestyle offer me? And will that actually feel better than the life that I’m currently in? By choosing to moderate and binge and moderate and binge? And I didn’t I didn’t stop drinking at that point. I never had another binge again. But it was the first of July in 2019. So the 30th of June 2019 was the last time I drank. I remember it very clearly. And so I’m coming up to nearly four. Yeah. Right. Which is Yeah, which is which is so I was reflecting back on it actually just before our conversation, and I thought gosh, the 40 year old version of me I turned 50 Last year would never have believed that the 50 year old version of me would be alcohol free and doing it by choice and actually embracing what this lifestyle has been for me. Yeah, so we’re gonna get to more of your story because it keeps going folks. You all know I’m a science girl and that is why I am so proud of my partnership with Sunnyside. Sunnyside has great data based on their user experience and they also have great science techniques behind what drives the program in the first place. Users of Sunnyside in their first 30 days experience on average a 29% reduction in drinks. They avoid 1500 calories and they’ve saved over $50 each month. This is because there is science behind the program Sunnyside helps you reach your goals and stick with them long term by focusing on three scientifically proven superpowers. One is pre commitment. You intentionally make a plan ahead of time and we talk about making a plan all the time here on the podcast. Number two is conscious interference and you’ll learn that the habit of tracking each drink helps you decide about it. Number three is positivity. We know this is not easy sometimes right? And we all need a little boost. I tried to be a boost and Sunnyside is a great boost via text message or email to keep you motivated. So if you haven’t already checked it out, I invite you www.sunnyside.co/molly To get started on a free 15 day trial today For our past, like I said, so many parallels. Binge drinking to me is one of those things where it’s just not the experience I had. So I don’t always, you know, but a lot of people who listen to me are binge drinkers. And I do believe that they can apply the work that I do, because something that you said was that you, you know, you had rules, and it was always about trying to, like, moderate with an idea of taking, you know, drinking water in between or one last drink of doing that kind of the way that we’re we’re always focused on that action of drinking, as opposed to really getting back to and I know what you talk about is education, emotion, action, and I talk about thoughts, feelings and actions and really understanding and being educated and understanding and changing have to, in going backwards to change how you think about your relationship with alcohol, you think what you want, in terms of what emotion you’re trying to get out of the glass, what you think that’s going to provide for you. That’s where the difference comes not in the you know, it’s the the application of all this work. Anyways, it’s very interesting to me, because like I said, I was not a binge drinker, I was a daily habit drinker. And you like you saying, like, I could go for days or weeks and not drink, and then binge like, I could not like, to me the whole idea of like, being able to add an alcohol free, like, just not being able to drink every day to me was, how could I ever do that? I cannot imagine a day where I wouldn’t come home and need to drink to take the edge off my day. Just so that the same things but waking up the next day and going why does this? Why is this? Why is this the one thing I cannot figure out my life, saying like you bury other in all other areas of my life, people would say very successful, you know, but I just couldn’t break that unbreakable habit, almost the same timeline, started doing the work in February of 2019. So I yeah, I’m not completely alcohol free. But I also now like this year and 2023, I will be 70% alcohol free all year long. I’ve got a you know, so it’s a huge, monumental shift from somebody that used to drink on a daily basis. Absolutely. And I think this is the thing. You know, I’ve had many clients who have started working with me, and they have been daily drinkers, daily drinkers. And no, I have just had one client who I’ve been working with for 18 months. And there’s been so many small shifts, but a lot of it has been on her relationship with herself, building confidence, and new, I guess even new ways of looking, looking at life and bringing new activities, exploring new interests. And so in the last probably 45 days, she decided to let go of alcohol, she decided it was she was ready for a break. And what has unfolded in this last 30 or 40 days is something quite magical, but she needed to get to a point where she felt confident to make that choice. And sometimes you need to develop quite a lot of scaffolding in your life, to be able to make that, that choice and that that takes time. And you know, it’s often really difficult when people come into wanting to change their relationship with alcohol and they focus directly on the behavior I have to stop, I have to stop, right. I always you know, I guess I all I always say to clients, when that’s the focus, let’s let’s just step back, let’s step back from that. Having to stop and give ourselves a little bit of a break and a little bit of self compassion, because that’s actually not the KPI here, the KPI is that you feel better about your relationship with alcohol, that you learn something about yourself and, and learn about how alcohol affects your body and your brain and your health. And that you come from a place of positivity within yourself when you choose to make changes rather than coming from a place of deprivation and punishment. And that’s often where we’re coming from. And I know that mindset only to well because that is where I was for so many years. I was whipping myself. I was so negative about my binging. And I guess the other thing that I think it’s really important to bring up is often I was a binge drinker who drank on weekends or events, so almost an episodic weekend binge drinker. And I think a lot of binge drinkers like me, really find it quite difficult to acknowledge that they have a problem. Because in Australian culture, and I think in UK culture and even in some in the US in some states, binge drinking is incredibly normalized on weekends, it’s what you do, you know, people go out and drink a lot. So, yes, you’re sort of able to give yourself a bit of a leaf pass. And I think what I found was was, you know, do I really have a problem? I mean, so many people are drinking a lot on weekends, is it actually something I need to be worried about? And often I’ll have clients asking me the same question who identify as you know, a similar type of drinker to myself. And the answer I always come back to them with is, you are a gauge on your own life, you are a gauge on whether you have a problem with alcohol, the best thing is not to compare your drinking to other people, the best thing to ask yourself is, is my drinking, negatively impacting the way I look at myself? Or my life in any other way? Whether that’s relationships with my family, or friends, the relationship with myself? Or is it impacting on you know, my work life? And if there’s an answer in there that says, yes, then it generally is a problem. And there’s, you know, there’s many things that you can do to help support yourself to start to make some change. Yeah, agreed. I see the same thing, because a lot of people who are daily drinkers like they’re not getting really intoxicated, right. So there’s this mindset, like, well, it’s not that bad, because I don’t really get drunk. I just, even though it’s not technically what, you know, what they say is healthy. It’s not that bad, but what they, what they minimize and don’t appreciate. And this is what was me for so long was, I never want to fight or, or gave voice to how much anxiety I had all the time, about my drinking habit. It was a constant source of worry, for me, especially growing up with as an, as a child of an alcoholic. I had this, this, you know, this ongoing, and I, I never understood how much trade off I was making in how I you know, the idea that it was being caused, even though that, that I just didn’t want to recognize and actually say out loud, I could talk myself into this idea that I didn’t really have a problem, right? Because I wasn’t, I wasn’t a binge drinker. I wasn’t an alcoholic, like my mom. And yet, just like you said, if I really wanted to, when I when I finally did this work, when I finally admitted it to myself, it was this. Yeah, it’s that one thing that I just feel like I cannot change. And it’s a source of constant anxiety for me. And once I realized that and gave voice to it, it was like, Yeah, okay. Got it. Got to work on it. Got to do it. Right. So you do all this work you when you make this decision, you decide to be alcohol free, and you start to be alcohol free on June 30 2019 or July 1, and not long thereafter, something fairly catastrophic. happened. Yes. As with all things in life, we never know what’s ahead, do we sometimes, and so six weeks after, I’ve made the decision to have an extended break from drinking, I was getting ready for work on one August morning, and my life absolutely changed. I was getting ready for work. I was having a shower, and it was really funny. I remember standing under the shower thinking I’m running late, I’ve got to get myself out quickly. And then for whatever reason, another thought came into my head which was you need to go and look at your body now in the mirror in your bedroom. And I listened to it, I stopped. I dried myself I quickly put on a pair of briefs and I ran out to the mirror which was this new floor to wall length mirror that we had only arrived about three weeks beforehand and I looked at my body in the mirror and straightaway my eyes data to my right breast I could see this almost dimpled, uneven skin on the top right hand corner and my heart immediately dropped in my I can remember my hands going to that. That mark and I could feel like a really large kind of lump it was like it had come out of nowhere and it was in that minute that my heart sank. And I’m not saying One who normally jumps to conclusions, but I just had this, unbelievable knowing that my life had absolutely changed and that I had breast cancer. And two days later, I had a diagnosis of what was called locally advanced breast cancer. So it hadn’t spread to other areas of my body, but it was a large, white aggressive tumor. And I had to get on to treatment straightaway. And so within a week, I was sitting in the chemo chair, having my first round of intensive chemotherapy for the next five months. So, of course, what happens when you have challenges in life? Well, what had happened in every other challenge in my life before I’ve drunk, I’d had binge binge outbursts and episodes, because that’s how you deal with difficult emotions. That’s how you deal with pain. That’s how you deal with grief. That’s how you escape from it. And so of course, those thoughts came into my mind, this isn’t a good time to stop drinking. If, if there’s ever an excuse, to have a drink, this is each. And so it was really interesting. It was almost like I was being given a, it was a it was a time in life where one choice was going to take me down one path, and one choice was going to take me down another path. Because now that I am where I am now, I’ve realized the choice that I made to keep alcohol still out of my life, I made a commitment then that there was no way that I was going to drink whilst I was going through breast cancer treatment, and that I was going to start to do some more work on my relationship with alcohol, I started to think about whether maybe my binge drinking could have had an influence on my, you know, my early breast cancer diagnosis. You know, I was 46 when I was diagnosed, it’s still quite young. And so I saw it as a real opportunity to start to learn more about myself emotionally and physically and spiritually. And that breast cancer was here to teach me something about myself, and that it was really important that I wanted to learn the lessons. I wanted to change my lifestyle, I wanted to change my life. And it was in the trenches of the breast cancer treatment. And the, I guess, the insights into my own mortality, that I really found so much power in choosing this alcohol free lifestyle, and also knowing that I had this absolute role to play in creating more awareness around the links between alcohol consumption and increased breast cancer risk. As I started to do some research into the risks. I was absolutely shocked that I didn’t know that alcohol causes breast cancer. I thought that alcohol was linked to other cancers. But I had no idea that low alcohol use increased breast cancer risk. And so I thought, Well, why haven’t I seen any health campaigns around these? Why happen? Isn’t anyone asked me about my drinking whilst I’ve even been going through breast cancer treatment. And so I decided that I was going to whilst I was going through treatment and beyond, I was going to start to do my own research, I was going to connect in with others who were doing work in this area, and that I would try and shine a light and generate awareness so that more women, men, other genders, whoever you are, can get access to this information. Yeah, I love that. And I love you’ve done some really great work in increasing awareness, especially in Australia. I love on your website, you have a link and I will link this in my show notes, folks, which is drink less for your breasts website. It it’s just a great, fantastic resource. What I love about the message there is it’s drink less not Don’t you know, when we start to tell people that they cannot drink at all, they they almost shut their ears off and they don’t want to hear it and they you know, if you’re drinking, and that’s one of the reasons I’m so passionate about this work is that there’s I always say it at the safest amount of alcohol is zero. That’s clinically proven for anyone that wants to argue about it. It is the truth scientifically, but there’s other reasons between that you may well Want to include alcohol in your life? And if that’s you, then that’s okay. What we want to do is move ourselves down the scale from the high risk limits and the high risk doses. And the closer we can get back down to the zero alcohol or less alcohol, the better. And I love that you are sharing this message because it is super important. And women, if you’re telling yourself that well, you just, you know, you don’t drink that much. So it’s, it’s not a big deal. That is not the case. The fact is, and let’s look at this statistically, what it says in on your website, and I believe this is shared from the drink less for your rest websites, is that 14% For each alcoholic drink per day at seven drinks per week. Is that accurate? Yes. So basically, it’s, if you have one drink less a week, you would reduce your overall risk by 2%. So, so wondering, is almost equivalent to 2% if you’re having a drink a day. So I think the clear message that I think is really important is every drink you choose not to have will reduce your overall risk. And if you can build that into your routine or week, then that’s really important, because I think often people think, oh, no, I don’t have to worry about it. It’s only people who excessively drink that need to worry about alcohol as a breast cancer risk. And I think what I would like people to take from this is that no, that is not the case. Even light consumption levels of alcohol can raise breast cancer risk significantly. And if that information is important to you, and you want to make health decisions based on this information, then I think it’s really important that it’s out there in the public domain, and that we have access to it. No one has agreed 100%. So okay, so you get this diagnosis, you are but you are in remission. You’re cancer free, correct? Yeah. Yes, I am. And I guess I have been now for close to three years. So I’m doing really well. Awesome, fantastic. And you went on to get certified as a coach, you are certified through this naked mind. So that, you know for those of you you people here know Annie grace, this naked mind, typically 100% alcohol free programs from this naked mind, but you work with people. And you and I had this conversation in different ways. So can you talk with me a little bit about how you work with binge drinkers specifically? Yeah, absolutely. I think for me, when I was looking for support in my relationship with alcohol, I just couldn’t find anyone who I really identified with, I guess the traditional forms of support such as AAA. And rehab really did not resonate for me. And so I wanted to become that coach for binge drinkers like myself, who knew they had a problem with alcohol, but didn’t know where to go for support and really wanted to be able to talk with someone who had a lived experience of a similar type of drinking issue to them. And I guess the way that I work with binge drinkers is, is similar to the way that I work with with daily drinkers. But we actually, I guess, put a lot of focus on looking at the binge drinking blueprint and the history and how that has shown up and looking at where that’s become a part of your identity and understanding the thoughts and the emotions and the feelings around that for me, you know, there was a lot of positive sort of identity reinforcement for other binge drinkers, it can be triggered by by, you know, by trauma, and I’m obviously not a psychologist or a counselor who deals with with trauma but even to identify that can be really useful for some binge drinkers so that they can then go and do some work with a professional, you know, on some of the, you know, underlying trauma that may have started this, this binge drinking pattern. We also do a lot of work on looking at all the triggers for binge drinkers. They can be environmental, they can be emotional. They can be event orientated. They can be weather orientated. So it’s getting a really full picture of, of your drinking history, and your drinking triggers. And then we do quite a bit of work on understanding, you know, blackouts as well, it’s often a big one. And I guess the shame, and the personal effects and negative effects of what binge drinking has caused, is often, one of the first sessions I’ll do with clients is just what I call a shame dump. Let’s just get it all out there. I’ll often get clients to write it down, and they’re very welcome to share it with me or not. But they’ll often say what a powerful exercise that is, because they’ve held it all in for so long, or it’s been swirling around in their head, and that to actually get it out and even to talk to someone who is there without judgment, who understands their, their psychology that they are seeing that they are heard. And as one of my clients said to me the other day, she said, the thing that I love about being coached with you is you always say we, it’s we not, you know, not I, so it feels like we’re both in this journey and experience together. Lovely, if I remember correctly on your you work, pretty much one on one with people. Is that, is that right? Yes, I only work one on one. So yeah, I have a specific binge st binge drinking breakthrough coaching program. And then I have a daily drinking freedom coaching program, and then an alcohol sort of reset or reboot program, which is shorter, which is sort of like a five session program. Okay, well, I love the the work that you’re doing. I love the message that you’re sharing. And I think it’s just such a great, great thing to be on opposite sides of the world, but sharing so much in terms of philosophy and practice, and, you know, similar messages, different ways of going about it and different habits to get here. But, but definitely a lot of shared experiences. And Katherine Elliot, let’s tell folks where they can find you. Absolutely. So my website is the alcohol mindset coach.com. I’m also on Instagram at the alcohol mindset coach. And as this naked mind certified coach, I’ve also created with some other Australian this naked mind coaches, a website called alcohol coaches, Australia where there are 10 certified this naked mind coaches who all have different niches and so it’s a fabulous resource for people to hop onto and have a look at a range of different coaches all who have had their own problematic relationship with alcohol and no longer choose to drink. Yeah, wonderful. We will put all that in the show notes, folks, of course, and Catherine Eliot, so nice to speak with you. I just enjoyed this conversation so much and I know people are really going to get so much out of it. I really appreciate it. Molly, it’s been beautiful to meet you. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to the alcohol minimalist podcast. This podcast is dedicated to helping you change your drinking habits and to create a peaceful relationship with alcohol. Use something you learned in today’s episode and apply it to your life this week. Transformation is possible. You have the power to change your relationship with alcohol now, for more information, please visit me at www dot Molly watts.com